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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  November 20, 2013 8:00pm-9:01pm PST

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over the place. there's certain rules you can say and this say rule. >> a firearm is real clear. eugene o'donnell thank you very much for joining us tonight. >> my pleasure. >> chris hayes is up next. good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes, and this evening, just a few hours ago the senate came to another one of its truly embarrassing avoidable standoffs. and it happened even though democrats and republicans had previously agreed on how to proceed on competing legislation. legislation over one of the biggest issues facing our country today. here is what happened. the one big thing that the senate needs to do before the thanksgiving break is pass the national authorization act of the defense bill. and this year, that bill is the terrain of one of the most interesting david and goliath battles. last year alone, an estimated
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26,000 instances of unwanted sexual contact, including aggravated sexual assault and rape, according to a survey of active duty members of the military. the defense department estimates that 86 and a half percent of these violent sexual crimes go unreported. and there is a clear-cut disagreement on how to report, prosecute and prevent the sexual assaults in the military. the problem was sadly underlined when the officer in charge of the sexual assault unit was arrested for groping a woman in a parking lot. he was sense then acquitted but removed from his post after the arrest. the way that the sexual assault gets reported is up the chain of command. and that system appears to have failed miserably. but that system, supported by an unlikely bipartisan band of
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senators, including republican senators chuck grassley, rand paul and ted cruz's along with most democratic senators, including senate majority leader harry reid. a total of 54 senators at last count, a clear majority. the strong bipartisan response epitomized by this response, the senators tearing up as they listen to a marine, ben clay, talking about his marine wife, ariana, who was raped at a barracks. the military justice improvement act which would remove sexual assault cases from the military chain of command. >> in this survey, this confidential survey, the reasons victims didn't report is they say they didn't believe anything would be done. they also said they either feared or witnessed retaliation. the confidence in an objective review by somebody who doesn't know the perpetrator and doesn't know the victim doesn't exist. >> essentially, the entire
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sitting military establishment opposes it. there is also bipartisan opposition to the amendment. including the armed chair, mccaskill who is offering a far left alternative. republican senators claim it will weaken the chain of military command. >> this new portion takes the offenses out of the purview of the commander and sends it to somebody in washington that nobody out of that unit that nobody will get to see. ladies and gentlemen, sexual assault is a problem, but for god's sake, let's don't tell every commander in the military you're fired. you're morally bankrupt in carrying out the duty in these cases. >> this is what you want to see a legislative body do, cutting across party lines and each side making their case. and despite the differences, both sides had agreed to allow a
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vote to go forward on their competing amendments. senators gillibrand and mccaskill and their republican supporters were in agreement on the debate time and the vote, yes, an actual vote in the united states senate. but other republican senators like coburn objected, leaving them upset. >> we can pass the blame to anyone we want to do that. gee whiz, couldn't we do that? otherwise we'll walk away not having done anything on this or just not doing any legislating here. >> senators who disagree, agree to debate, putting it to a vote only to find that a group of republicans would just rather shut it down and do nothing.
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joining me knew, senator gillibrand, and your reaction to the fact that the vote that looked like it would happen is not going to happen. >> well, i'm very disappointed that we didn't get to vote tonight. but it is all about making sure the victims' voices are heard and about getting justice in the military. >> this debate is spirited and crossed party lines, mccaskill, somebody you would consider a friend has offered a competing amendment. why do you think it is your version that your fellow senators should rally around? >> well, i think all the reforms that senator mccaskill has worked on are very good reforms. they help those cases that are actually reported go better for the victim. but what they don't do is last year alone there were 26,000 cases of rape, sexual assaults and upper wanted contact, and
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only 3,000 reported. so of the cases that didn't report they said the reason was they didn't think the command would do anything. and that they feared or actually witnessed retaliation if they did report. so for all of those victims if you don't create a justice system worthy of their sacrifice, one where they think they can actually get an objective review outside the chain of command, they actually don't have a hope they can get justice. so they will not report those cases. those command climates are broken, the trust that a victim has with her command has been breached. and they do not believe that justice is possible under the current system because all roads lead to the commander. no matter where they report the
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cases it is the commander who decides whether or not to go to trial. unfortunately these commanders are not lawyers. they're not trained. no background, and often times the decisions they make are biassed, perpetrators are often more senior, and more decorated. even general amos said the reason why the victims don't report is they don't trust the chain of command. >> doesn't that argument prove that that is true of every type of crime and problem. the argument they're taking, they're saying you're taking a code of chain of command, dealing with the problem in armed services, you're blowing it up. you're doing tremendous damage, what you're doing is revolutionary. >> what we're doing is taking 5% of the cases, they're the very serious crimes, the reason we're creating a better case of justice for the serious crimes is both defendants crimes and victims rights. if you're going to be in jail for more than a year you have a right to have the system well trained. it is not based on who they like
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better, who is more valuable to the unit, more popular for morale. if the crime is serious, with penalty more than a year, the armed services demand they have a justice system worthy of their sacrifice, one that could actually be transparent and accountable. and look, they have said for 20 years that there is zero tolerance for sexual assault and rape. but i can tell you with all the sexual assaults and rapes, it is time to do something. they didn't see a good order of discipline by taking out this one legal decision from very high commanders, they actually saw no good distance, they said nothing bad happened. >> can i ask you, this is a question of how you make your priorities. there is only an amount of time you can spend on it. what is it about this leadership? why have you been so out spoken and forceful in pushing this? >> when you talk to any victim who has survived not just a
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brutal rape, but the indignity and the violation, when the commander says it is your own fault after a brutal rape. or you're the one who caused this. or if you decide to report this your career is over. i will not pursue it. when you hear that from a man or woman who will literally die for this country and our values, the anger rises from me and says they deserve better. men and women who risk everything in this country deserve a justice system based on core american values that you will have an objective fair review based on evidence, not bias, as to whether your case goes forward. it is the least we can do for these men and women. >> senator gill ebrand, thank
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you for your time. joining me now, the director of women's services and also a marine corps veteran, a frequent guest on our show to exactly this issue anu, i would like to get your reaction to the developments today. and i start with this. we have been talking about this over the last several months. six months ago, if i asked you to put odds on senator gillibrand's vote passing, what would you have thought? >> we have been working on this for years, there has been a tidal wave of sympathy and compassion for our soldiers in the military. who put up with this injustice for not just years, but decades, and senator gillibrand has been working on the floor for months, she is riding the wave, by and for the american people.
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the nation is with us. >> how is your reaction, being on the edge of the vote, and see on the floor, you finally had the senate doing the thing you wanted it to do which is to debate and vote on an important piece of legislation. to have the -- just completely sabotage -- how were you feeling in the moment when that happened? >> well, some of this is just political theater. i mean, we will get a vote at some point very soon. and we're looking forward to seeing which senators actually vote on the side of justice, on the side of troops, on the side of veterans organizations, like ours, iraq and afghanistan veterans of america. there is a huge coalition of organizations around this nation that support our troops and veterans on this bill. i mean, there is no question
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that a vote for justice is a vote for senator gillibrand's bill. >> are you saying a vote against the bill is against the troops and veterans? >> i would say that a vote against senator gillibrand's bill is a bad political move. i think the american people are watching. >> do you think that we're going to see broader institutional reforms inside the pentagon if this legislation passes? and if it doesn't pass is there hope that something changes other than this legislative solution or is this it? >> there are always other solutions, there is no silver bullet. but at a minimum we have to make sure that the military criminal justice system is as unbiassed and impartial as it can be. and right now we're not close to that with the current system we have.
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so we need to make sure the people qualified to make decisions are actually qualified, not commanders. so once we start, yes, we can work on the large scale reforms that we need everybody to work on with us. some of that includes civil lawsuits. some of us don't have the access to sue the government for damages, victims have that very important deterrent available to them. we need that for service members, as well. but that is the next step. >> when a sitting general, somebody in the pentagon hears you say that, do you think they think okay, well, this is just the crow bar that these folks are going to use to pry open the entire system that we have, that we trust, that we know that produces the outcomes that we want? >> this is not that bold of a move. i mean, this is a very common sense narrow reform that will take our military justice system into the 21st century. we don't argue when we bring our weapons systems into the 21st century, or our tactics, or medical technology, or to help the troops on the battlefield.
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but for some reason we're not bringing the military justice into the 21st century, and i ask why, would our allies have done this, when the accused, both the victims and crimes get a better shot at justice from this reform. it is a no-brainer. >> no-brainer was never a sure thing in the united states senate. coming up, ahead on the show. >> let this be a lesson to all 50 states. tonight, the people of albuquerque rejected an extreme agenda pushed by out of state and out of touch groups that want to end safe and legal abortion altogether. >> yesterday, the city of albuquerque handed the anti-abortion movement a big defeat in a test case with national implications. that story is ahead. shoes from e but they didn't fit. customer's not happy, i'm not happy. sales go down, i'm not happy. merch comes back, i'm not happy. use ups. they make returns easy.
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coming up, a president gets to choose just who he will award the presidential medal of freedom to. so in a lot of ways, the
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recipients reflect what he constitutes as american greatness, we'll look into that. but first, if you were president who would you award the presidential medal of freedom to. i'll share a couple at the end of the show. so stay tuned. we'll be right back. you need a permit... to be this awesome. and you...rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle... and go. you can even take a full-size or above, and still pay the mid-size price. (aaron) purrrfect. (vo) meee-ow, business pro. meee-ow. go national. go like a pro. [ ding ] i sense you've overpacked, your stomach. try pepto to-go. it's pepto-bismol that fits in your pocket. relief can be yours, but your peanuts... are mine.
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♪ the anti-abortion right thinks they have discovered the key to victory in the quest to end abortion rights in this country.
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but yesterday, that faced a crucial test for the first time in front of voters and the results were surprising. >> the bill has passed. >> it approved a bill that restricts nearly after abortions after 20 weeks of conception. >> the house republicans have led the way on what has become senate republicans' go-to, to get out of trouble with the right wing, the 20-week abortion ban. it is how two republican heretics had to win back the favor of the base, when marco rubio tried to sell the base earlier this year, had he was called a traitor to the right. >> we got a bunch of people in the republican party acting like liberals. >> and then he would rule in favor. >> u.s. senator marco rubio who also is considering a presidential run has been invited by pro life groups to sign legislation on abortion
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after 20 weeks. >> but then, senator graham thought he needed a right-wing pick-me-up today. >> senator graham said that the legislation would ban abortion after 20 weeks of pregnancy. >> the question for us, should we remain silent as a society or should we speak up? should we speak on behalf of these babies? >> republicans think that finally after getting trumped politically on women's issues, they have a winning one. right now, 12 states have similar abortion bans on the books, including texas, where it was part of the abortion bill pushed through the legislature after wendy davis' famous filibuster. the anti-abortion groups have been throwing their weight behind the 20-week ban, as the very standard set by roe v. wade. part of the reason they think it
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is a winning strategy is because of the idea of selling americans on late-term abortion. but that was a test. >> albuquerque voters struck down the late-term abortion ban. >> yesterday in albuquerque, new mexico, voters defeated a ballot measure that would have banned abortions in the city after 20 weeks. >> we were happy that we were able to get our people out and support. and that the voters of albuquerque took a stand. >> the question put on the ballot with 20,000 signatures was based on the junk science that underpins this whole debate are. >> when i learned that babies feel pain at five months, even though i'm pro choice it helped me rethink how i feel about abortion. at a point when the baby feels pain shouldn't we all say that is just too far? >> that from the susan b. anthony list, the same group behind the senate's 20-week abortion ban. and it is not by accident this is happening in albuquerque.
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there are only three clinics in the nation providing late-term abortion, and one was in albuquerque. for the anti-abortion movement, this was a test case and the voters turned out in droves. >> young women, people of color, and faith came out together. >> almost 20,000 more people voted than in recent mayoral elections. last night, the voters in albuquerque made their idea clear. >> it really will serve as a blueprint for other states that are facing a tax on reproductive rights across the country. >> for more coverage on the vote in albuquerque, check out the excellent reporting on msnbc. joining me now, diverne gaining, director of the national clinic access project there, organizing in albuquerque to stop the 20-week abortion ban. and this is one of those stories where sometimes you will get a small election in a relatively small bit of turf that becomes essentially a national battle.
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and we've seen it on the minimum wage fight and some other stuff. this was one of those huge battles waged in a relatively small geographic area, what was your reaction to that? >> i think it is huge, anti-abortion extremists thought they would get away with this. and we proved them wrong. they can't import from out of state a measure that the community and really the country will not be deceived by. i think as my colleagues said, this was a group of women, young women, people of color. the voters of albuquerque coming out in record numbers to defeat this, by 55%. >> you know, i should read the text of it, because i think the victory is all the more remarkable, given the question in front of voters, the voters of albuquerque invest a certain amount of interest, from the stage in which medical evidence indicates they are capable of
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feeling pain. now that is not the language that advocates would have chosen, and yet, even with that language it was defeated. >> that is right, and even the ballot itself, it was crazy, the ballot itself had all of this junk science in it. voters were confused. there is this huge preamble before the ordinance, and then it had for or against. in spite of all of that there is no alternative, fact-based opinion allowed to be on the ballot. in spite of all of that, all the deception, it was soundly defeated. >> nancy, this -- i don't think people quite realize what is happening underneath the radar with the 20-week ban. this is the vehicle, this is it. this is where the fight is right
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now. it is happening in the states. and people that want to make abortion illegal in this country, this is their hope. and there is two ways that they're pinning their hopes on it. one, they think it has political appeal. they think you can get people to come around and say this is reasonable, we're not saying all abortions, just some. and two, this is a way to go after roe, they are begging to get it before the court. >> well, i think that is right. and what is so important in albuquerque, just like when voters had extreme issues in mississippi, colorado twice, the vote is rejected. >> and what is best here is that
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polling on this issue is famously difficult to pin down, people are cross-pressured and confused. you rarely get a referendum. >> you also have people directly voting on the issue, not having their politicians grandstanding with the kind of crazy laws and harmful laws passed in texas that we see around the nation. so it is really important what the voters said in albuquerque is we understand what this does. and we do not want to see a ban, even in a difficult area of late abortions. because we think that women and their doctors should make these decisions. >> justice scalia rejected appeal from texas to get an injunction there. the closure of the clinics, the filibuster from wendy davis, what happens next? >> we were surprised the -- not surprised the supreme court didn't intervene. it was a long shot, we'll be back in the u.s. court of appeals for the fifth circuit. and in the district court we won. we had a full trial. and that judge said, number one, there is no medical reason to have the kind of restriction that texas put in, which is that
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the doctors have to have admitting privileges. no medical reason. and also it will lead to what we're seeing right now in texas, a third of the clinics being closed. >> the big question, when this court takes one of these cases what this court does. and that is what i think has everybody on tender hooks, and that is why this movement is so crucially important. duverne gains, thank you both. coming up next. some of us may be less talented but we all have the opportunity to serve and open people's hearts and minds in our smaller orbits, so i hope everybody has been as inspired as i have been. >> today we got a unique look into how president obama sees america, more on that in a few minutes. and coming up later? >> i'm walking into a meeting about vine and how members of congress can use it better. >> that was trey radel, prolific viner, he vines about everything, there is one thing he probably won be vining about. and we'll talk about that, ahead. [ male announcer ] sheets or bar? how do you get your bounce?
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early in oprah winfrey's career, her bosses told her she should change her name to susie. i have to pause here to say i got the same advice. >> so oprah was at the white house today, as was president bill clinton, country music star loretta lynn, and my personal favorite, chicago cubs favorite, ernie banks, they were there to
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receive the highest award, from people famous to probably people you never heard of. every one of them has an incredible story. some of the most interesting stories come from the people in that latter category. the honor, heralded by the president, it is an opportunity for the president to express his own view and values. that is because he, some day she, gets to select the recipients. perhaps you have seen the hash tag, obamasamerica, and some will take that tweet and blame is on the white house. but if you want to get a real vision of obama, gloria steinem was there, she fought the establishment, challenged in an effort to help women gain equal footing in this country. gloria steinem was not getting white house invitations earlier
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in her career, there she was at the white house receiving her medal. and mario molina was winner of the nobel prize, he discovered that cfcs were destroying part of the earth's ozone level, after years of warnings by molina and others in his field, something unusual happened. the world helped protect the ozone layer. there were medals awarded to the first woman in space, who later was an inspiration to gay, lesbian, transgender folks around the country. another to a former u.s. senator, another to a man who may have been the greatest organizer in american history. he was one of the chief strategists. openly gay in an era where people stayed in the closet, he was at the front of the civil rights movement. he, too, was honored by the
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first african american president earlier. >> now, early in the morning, the day of the march on washington, the national mall was far from full. and some in the press were beginning to wonder if the event would be a failure. but the march's chief organizer didn't panic. as the story goes he looked down at a piece of paper, looked back up and told reporters that everything was right on schedule. the only thing the reporters didn't know was that the paper he was holding was blank.
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he didn't know how it would work out, but he had an unshakeable optimism. nerves of steel. and most importantly a faith that if the cause is just and people are organized, nothing can stand in our way. for decades, this great leader, often at dr. king's side, was denied his rightful place in history because he was openly gay. no medal can change that, but today we honor his memory by taking our place in the march towards true equality, no matter who we are or who we love. >> i am really fortunate to know a lot of people, family and friends who worked so hard with no publicity or engagement, every day to repair the world just a little bit. and i know because of those relationships how tempting it is to lose faith, and for years, people like gloria steinem started their days looking at a world that looks very similar to
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the world they had said good-bye to just the night before. securing equal and legal and social rights for women, stitching a wound in the earth's atmosphere, ending american apartheid, if you look at who the president chose today, it is clear he grasps that as well as anyone.
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>> trey radel represents the good people. he is a husband, father, he was a tv news anchor, he once owned a company that registered addresses in spanish. >> as a republican, i call them conservative values, but really they're american values. >> he also bought up web addresses, using the names of his rival candidates, like the former cia director, he covered all of his bases, he is criticized by his opponents, but said hey, i'm a business guy. he believes in things like capitalism, what else does he believe in? >> i believe in love of hip-hop, such as big daddy cane, some of
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this music, as musicians and artists have done for generations, what they do is open the eyes of people from maybe different walks of life. >> congressman trey radel is the self-proclaimed hip-hop conservative, on his twitter page. he wrote an essay about his love of hip-hop and about a conservative message of the fight for power. what, might you ask, is fight the power's hidden tea party message? >> if you really get down to it, in many ways reflects the conservative message of having a
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heavy-handed federal government. >> radel began by representing florida. he voted against the reauthorization of the violence against women act, and last month voted to cut billions from the food stamp program. when a letter was sent out this summer demanding that john boehner support a bill that would de-fund obama care, it was just a few short miles from where jay-z grew up, trey radel lended his support. that is how he became one of the people who is running the country. >> when we come back, we'll talk about congressman trey radel's cocaine bust, and how the perception is pretty different from the reality. . congressman trey radel of would defund obama care, it was just a few short miles from where jay-z grew up, trey radel lended his support. that is how he became one of the people who is running the country. >> when we come back, we'll talk about congressman trey radel's cocaine bust, and how the perception is pretty different from the reality. t waters on ea. like the cold alaskan seas. it's the cleanest, clearest water. a haven for crab. [ male announcer ] and the unspoiled coast of maine. maine lobster is the tastiest, the sweetest. [ male announcer ] we serve it the only way seafood should be... prepared to order by experts. if i wouldn't eat it, i'm not gonna serve it. [ male announcer ] and delivered hot from our kitchen, right to your table. ♪ that's how we sea food differently. now get ten dollars off any two seafood bakes, crab or lobster entrees.
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congressman trey radel of florida pled guilty earlier today to cocaine possession and was sentenced to a year of probation. he is lucky the bust happened in washington, d.c., and not in his home state of florida, where the crime would have been a third degree felony, not a misdemeanor. he would have faced up to five years in jail and as a felon he would have lost his right to vote. he is also lucky he is not washington, d.c. mayor marion berry, who was convicted of smoking crack on camera, but was sentenced to six months in jail. six months. fbi and dea agents learned the defendant had on several occasions purchased, possessed and used cocaine. he would purchase it for his personal use ands share it with others.
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it all came to a head last month when he met with an acquaintance of his at a restaurant, and told the man he had had cocaine at his apartment. when the man declined to do the cocaine, the officer told radel he had cocaine available to sell. the price, $250. now, trey radel is of course not the only politician in the news getting caught. mayor rob ford continues to spiral out of control in toronto, all of which spiralled out of control with the video confirming he used crack cocaine, the video he confirmed was true. and this forces us to reckon with the fact across america, illegal drugs are used by people who don't fit the comfortable stereotype. powder and crack cocaine are not just used by people over there, the ones on the street corners
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and in the neighborhoods you don't go to after dark. in fact, when is comes to cocaine, white people have used it as much as black people. when you talk about crack cocaine, it is used as much by white folks as black folks. our policy on drugs in america is prohibition, but much like the policy in the past, it doesn't necessarily reflect behavior. the hypocrisy, regarding trey radel, before his bust, voted to drug test the food stamp recipients. joining me now, founder and executive director of the drug policy alliance, and joy? you spent a lot of time in florida, here is my reaction, i am torn between rage at the hypocrisy, and compassion for somebody who is going through substance abuse issues. >> i even have compassion for rush limbaugh, when he was
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walking around buying oxycontin. one wishes that people on the right could transfer that same sense of compassion to people who are not white and affluent, something they seem to be consistently unwilling or unable to do. >> that is what is remarkable, watching this unfold, the fact that there are places in this country, in which if you're young and black and caught with that amount of drugs you are -- you're catching a record and you're going to be channelled into an entirely different life. i want to talk about the kind of hypocrisy at the heart of this right after we take this quick break. a bike that honored those who serve our country. and geico gave me that opportunity. now naturally, we wanted it to be powerful, innovative and we built this bike as a tribute to those who are serving, those who have served
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we're back, i'm here with joy reid, jomani williams, this is a quote about an article about mayor rob ford from a canadian publication i thought sort of nailed the hypocrisy from the perspective -- up there. toronto mayor rob ford, as somebody who represents councilman, a district with 200 folks catching cases like this, what is your reaction? >> the thing that makes me angry, one, the hypocrisy, and two, people pretend like we're making it up. it is just so blatant, you see so many inconsistencies -- >> people think you're making this up? >> they think you're making up profiling, making up the way the drug laws are disproportionately affecting people.
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and in a case like this, the republican senator voted against the legalization of marijuana, got arrested for using marijuana. and in the case of people who look like me, they get sent to jail instead of getting services they need for the addiction they have, they get sent to jail. >> and we look at the ravages of somebody in a spiral of substance abuse. i think anyone watching this knows someone in their life. i watched it happening to people i love. it is devastating, the most horrific thing to watch happen to a person. and the policy prescription for that pain is prohibition, right? there is this mismatch. >> and also it is the class-based distinction, because if you're white, affluent, you will probably go get the drug problem treated in a private facility. if you're dark, the only way you get treatment is through the
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criminal justice system. and it is not really treatment. the fact that they're applied disproportionately to one part of society. >> and in florida, even if you get arrested and you're white, the rates of adjudicating your system, it is much more likely that the white defendant will have the case adjudicated out less than something winding up with a felony. but african-americans are being deprived of voting rights in a state like florida, which means not only are you punished to the worst degree. but not only that, you should make them pay for a drug test and prove to them they're not an addict, simply because they're poor. prove you're not an addict, and we'll see you back. >> the long-standing effects, i did the same thing you did, i may not be able to get a job, get the loans to go to school. and the multiply effect, there is a blame game going on. they did the same thing -- >> michelle alexander which wrote "the medium crow," she talked about the concept of
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marketing, that part of what the criminal justice system is doing is saying these kinds of people belong over here, and these kinds of people belong over here. but if you live life in america and you go through a different strata, one thing you find is there are substance abuse problems in all of those areas. if i give you an assignment to go to harvard and score coke, you can get it. >> if they say white people are as likely a as black people to use cocaine, nobody believed it. the interesting thing with the marijuana arrest is, if you said you knowingly stopped 100 brown kids or black kids, roughly the same will have pot in their
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pocket. if you ask why are black people, three times more likely to get busted or arrested, people realize there is a racial dimension to this thing. >> i'm glad you brought up pot. there was a lot of humor around rob ford, part of it came from the idea that basically, the racialized assumption, who does crack -- actually, the reason i was lying, i was too drunk -- >> here is what is hilarious about that. trey radel said the exact same thing, i'm struggling with alcoholism. apparently, his father talked to
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the press, his mother was an alcoholic. and he said i made a poor decision, extremely irresponsible choice, father of a young son, a loving wife, i need help. what is interesting there is, if you're a politician you make the distinction between the legal and the illegal. the excuse is, i was just abusing the legal one, and that led me astray -- >> look how the assumptions are used to continue the new jim crow. so when you want to do the rockefeller drug laws -- >> those are a set of laws in new york state that were incredibly hard around drugs. >> you can focus on the belief that crack cocaine is being used by black folks. when you want to get rid of food stamps, you can use the belief that only those people are using it. when you want to get rid of
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welfare, you can pretend that only young black mothers are using it. when you use these, you continue the new jim crow process talked about in that book. they can't even recognize it is a problem -- >> let me say one thing, there is ambivalence about the young man -- what about setting up on a buy? this guy is a hypocrite because he wants to drug test people applying for food stamps, on the other hand, he is one of the few republicans who is saying get rid of the mandatory minimums, condemning the drug war. quite frankly the only way we see reform is that both democrats and republicans see this. >> it is true of rob ford who is horrible as a politician, believing in all sorts of terrible things, doing a terrible job running the city. you want to extend compassion outward, versus putting it in
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the other direction, that is the real challenge at this moment. that is "all in" for this evening, thank you for joining us. >> i was so hammered, chris, good evening, i didn't know what i was doing. >> one of your drunken stupors. >> exactly, took the words out of my mouth. very excited to tell you our first guest tonight is elizabeth warren, a senator from massachusetts who is making democrats do back flips over the effect she is having on the democratic party, and she could be a big part of the next round of national democratic leadership for 2016 and beyond. senator elizabeth warren is our guest live in just a moment. and in washington, though,

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